E.S. Radko Vlaykov: Bulgarian-Romanian relations advance successfully in the domains of security and defense

Răzvan Munteanu, CheckMedia, B1, 8 June 2024

Since February 2022. H.E. Radko Vlaykov is Ambassador Extraordinary and Plenipotentiary of the Republic of Bulgaria to Romania. He served as spokesman of the Bulgarian Ministry of Foreign Affairs from 1994 to 2001. His assignments and appointments include Special Coordinator for Public Administration at the Ministry of Foreign Affairs (2015-2016) and Ambassador Extraordinary and Plenipotentiary of the Republic of Bulgaria to the Republic of Serbia. He speaks English, German, Czech and Russian.

This interview was conducted by Romanian journalist Răzvan Munteanu for the Romanian TV station B1’s Check Media emission and is reprinted with his permission.

Răzvan Munteanu: With the beginning of the war in Ukraine, the Black Sea region is a very tense, complicated region and it is good to know our friends and neighbours at the same time, because this way we can decide a common future, both in Europe and in NATO. In this sense, we start a discussion about the admission to the Schengen area, bilateral relations or how we see the conflict in Ukraine with none other than with the Bulgarian Ambassador in Bucharest, Mr Radko Vlaykov.

Excellency, thank you very much for coming here today on our show. Good evening, thank you very much for coming here. My first question. I am waiting to talk about bilateral relations between Romania and Bulgaria. In this context, how do Bulgarian-Romanian relations look like today?

This is probably the best period in the relations between the two countries and I will explain why. 30-35 years ago, when the changes started in Romania and Bulgaria, we were left with the legacy of the totalitarian period in both countries. Unfortunately during this period we were together in the Soviet bloc, but the relations that existed then were not real. They were dominated by Moscow, the Soviet leadership and so on.

After the changes in these two countries, a whole new atmosphere emerged in our countries and in our societies. I would like to comment on the fact that in the past 30 years there have been a lot of changes, both in the mentality of Romanians and Bulgarians.

And we, the two nations, have begun to understand how close we are, that we are not just neighbours, that we are two nations working to be in Europe. We were in Europe before this totalitarian regime came to our countries. That’s the only reason why it’s important that people start to have a different common perspective.

Before that I will be honest, in Bulgaria we often said “Alas, Romanians”, I am talking about the 80s, when the situation in Romania was not very good. We used to say – “Alas, poor Romanians”, and the Romanians used to say “Alas, poor Bulgarians”. And now the situation is completely different. I am talking about relations between the two societies now.

And as far as politicians are concerned, they are obliged to go by the will of the people. And the fact that we are together in the EU, together in NATO, means that we have gone all the way down this road of EU and NATO. We have walked together now in Schengen, in the OECD, in the Eurozone.

So there are a lot of arguments that we are going down the same road. And I want to say that there was probably a period in the last 20-25 years when we discovered each other, when we discovered our new path on which we walked together. And in certain periods in Bulgaria there was stability, in other periods in Romania there was stability. And it is precisely because of this difference that politicians have not been able to use all the opportunities that we have as NATO members, as EU members.

Now for the first time we have a very good relationship between the two neighbouring countries. The war in Ukraine was a moment when we understood how important it is to work together. The war started on 24 February 2022. A year later (on 15 March 2023 – editor’s note) two presidents of Bulgaria and Romania signed the joint political declaration for strategic partnership between Romania and Bulgaria. And this is the most important document and the most important moment in our recent history. And as far as the relationship between those two countries is concerned, I want to say that, first of all, I want to talk about our relations in the defense and security sphere. I base this on the fact that we are not only allies within NATO, but we understand how important is the responsibility that we are assuming at this time, the responsibility for the region and for the situation in the Black Sea. This unites us and allows us to be more focused on the issues that are there now, and the cooperation between the two countries in recent years has been tremendous.

On the security and defense side there have been a lot of delegations between the two countries, joint actions undertaken and various exercises. But first and foremost, our common concern and sense of responsibility and accountability for the region. On the defense and connectivity side, here we still have a bit of work to do. We can improve the situation.

We have a memorandum from 2019 in which five new places for bridges on the Danube were set. It is a paradox that on a border of about 400 kilometers between Romania and Bulgaria we have only two bridges. It is not normal for two countries, EU and NATO members.

I visited seven border areas in the Danube area with the relevant mayors, because Giurgiu, Turmu Măgurele are very common, I know them all. And we visited all these areas. And the desire of the locals for new bridges is great and important. This connection is a point we have to work on. In the last year we have an achievement. We have started a joint project for a new bridge connecting the motorway in the Ruse-Giurgiu area. And it is good that we have started working on this project. We have started funding for feasibility studies.

And this was done under the military mobility programme. Of course, it is a very important step. In parallel with this project, we are also working on the second project, the Fast Danube, that’s the name. This is a project we are carrying out together with the European Commission. It is a joint project between the two countries and the European Commission. We are organising the facilitation of navigation on the Danube.

But we have to work hard and be very active in this project. Of course, we have excellent cooperation on energy. I don’t know if people who are looking at this programme are interested, but I can assure the Romanian people that we have very important and successful cooperation in the energy field in the last year, well, even in the last two years, ever since the energy crisis started after the beginning of the Russian aggression in Ukraine.

We remember how difficult this period of energy crisis was, and we and our politicians were very responsible and worked very hard together. Of course I am not just talking about the Bulgarians and the Romanians, I am also talking about the other partners we have. And now we have guaranteed energy sources, and even more, now it is possible to organise the delivery of various energy resources to Moldova and then also to Ukraine. I’m sure, that this is very important now.

I’m not even talking about trade. Romania is the second largest partner for Bulgaria, we are the fourth largest for Romania. Romanian tourists are the most present in Bulgaria and vice versa. So the exchange between our peoples is extraordinary.

And I want to be very honest, when I talk to Romanians, they know that I am Bulgarian, but they don’t know that I am an ambassador. I received very positive reactions from them. And they tell me that they had beautiful experiences in Bulgaria. And the opposite is true, when I talk to Bulgarians, they tell me that they feel at home in Romania. And this is very important. We discover each other in a new way. And of course this is a very positive aspect.

Thank you for your answer, very complex and interesting. At the same time, Excellency, if you agree, I would like to talk about the Schengen dossier. It is a subject of common interest for both countries. What comments do you have on the position of some countries, such as Austria or the Netherlands on this dossier?

This is in the past. Their position is in the past. Their position at the end of 2023 was not necessarily a problem for Romania and Bulgaria as far as Schengen is concerned. I would like to say a few things though.

Romania and Bulgaria are the most loyal partners in the European Union. We are 100% committed. Even before we became members of the EU, both Romania and Bulgaria were 100% part of the security policy. After 17 years, we are loyal members.

As far as Schengen is concerned, both countries have been ready for 12 years, if not longer, to be part of Schengen, which is why we believe that the position of Austria, maybe not from the political int of view of the EU, but from a social point of view, is not fair neither to the Romanians nor to the Bulgarians. Why?

It is absolutely normal in the European Union and in Schengen for decisions to be taken by consensus, but in our case, consensus does not respond to the positions of the other 25 Member States, of all the European institutions and of Austria’s interests, because Austrian business has an interest in Romania and Bulgaria being part of Schengen. Business will suffer many losses if Romania and Bulgaria are not in Schengen. And I will give you a small example.

Each Dacia car exported from Romania to other countries, because of the restrictions put in place by the Schengen area, costs 100 euros more. And this, of course, is not positive. And we are again in a situation where, when a country or, in fact, a party in a country, because of internal political problems, does not allow something to happen that is in the interest of all the countries in the EU and in the Schengen area. Moreover, when we talk about migration, Bulgaria and Romania, we have done a lot of work in recent years. And now all the figures show that we are not the problem.

All these issues such as drug trafficking, human trafficking, migration and so on, as far as Romania and Bulgaria are concerned, are not convincing. We have the best reputation on this. And I would like to quote European Commissioner Johansson, when he had the meeting with the Minister of Interior Cătălin Predoiu, with the Bulgarian Minister of Interior, Kalin Stoyanov, in the meeting that took place in Sofia the next one and a half, he said that Romania and Bulgaria are doing their job to secure the external borders of the European Union. They are doing even better than other countries. And this is the position of the European Commissioner. That is why there is no reason for this negative position.

I believe that we must continue to act together and have a common position, because together we are stronger and the achievements in terms of air and sea border control are positive results. There are various voices saying, sir, it is not enough, you are not staying in Schengen and so on. That is not the truth.

We are already part of the Schengen decision-making mechanism and it is absolutely guaranteed that we are already part of Schengen, of the common visa system. And so on.

Of course, people don’t feel that this is such a great achievement, but it really is an extremely important step. Without this step, it will not be possible to reach a final decision.

Regarding the situation of Austria, I would like to mention that they also joined Schengen in two steps. First, the first step on the sea and air side, as Romania and Bulgaria did. And in the second stage, if I am not mistaken, after a year and a half, Austrian land border control was withdrawn. So they went through the same process. But for us, for the Bulgarians, for our policemen, for our states, it is a problem to depend on one party.

Everyone is talking about the Austrian elections in the autumn. What should we do if the results and the situation will be worse than now? What will happen? What will we have to do in this situation? And I’m not just talking about Bulgaria and Romania, I’m talking about the EU.

The European Union is a family. And when in this family one small thing goes wrong, then the whole family has to react. And we are very much relying on the reaction of the bigger states in the European Union and the EU institutions. Of course, as we all know, there are elections tomorrow and I strongly believe that very soon afterwards, this topic will be back on the agenda, because it is important for both countries.

Your Excellency, let us talk about the worst-case scenario. If accession on land is postponed, is it possible to create a mini-Schengen between Romania and Bulgaria?

Many members of the European Parliament in Romania and Bulgaria have officially announced such ideas. I personally met with Members of the European Parliament, members from Bulgaria and Romania and discussed this idea. I want to say that it is not a good idea and this is not the solution. Why?

Because, let us think about it, let us say we take this decision and create this mini-Schengen area. What will happen then? We have free entry from Bulgaria into Romania and vice versa. And that’s it. What about the border between Romania and Hungary? What about the border between Bulgaria and Greece?

So this is not a solution and if we do this, the Austrians will say, they are happy with this situation. So it’s not a solution and I don’t agree with a lot of politicians who talk about this and support this idea.

Indeed, maybe the idea is nice, that between us we will not have a border, but it is not a solution. There are also legal problems with this idea. We are democratic countries, we go by the rule of law. We cannot implement solutions that are not in favour of a democratic approach and the rule of law.

There are currently temporary controls at 14 borders in the Schengen area. And these voices from Members of the European Parliament, both from Bulgaria and Romania, have found a legal solution to implement this temporary control. And in this situation we can use the same mechanism and make it so that there is no control between us.

But this is not the case and I do not agree that this is a feasible solution. It does not show that Romania and Bulgaria are ready to fight for this objective. But not only Romania and Bulgaria, I can tell you that Greece is also very interested in us joining Schengen on land borders. So is Hungary, so is business in Austria, and there is a huge paradox. In name, Austria is one of the biggest investors both in Bulgaria and Romania. And their resistance would be against the interests of Austrian business, which could develop more in the two countries and help us.

Because every government depends on the business environment and the business environment can determine, I can say, please, we need solutions. Solutions for Romania and Bulgaria. That is why I say it is a very nice idea, but it has no practical consequences.

What will happen to the border between Romania and Hungary and between Bulgaria and Greece? Nothing. So it is not a very good strategy for our lives.

Your Excellency, I would like to go further and ask you about the situation in Ukraine. Your Excellency, what is Bulgaria’s position on the war in Ukraine? It is exactly the same as that of Romania, the European Union and NATO.

Since the beginning of the war, we have condemned Russia’s war in Ukraine. Moreover, we support Ukraine as a sovereign state and to have internationally recognised borders, including Crimea. Because we often talk about the war in Ukraine, but we have to bear in mind that the Crimea issue is part of this situation with Ukraine. Moreover, in Russia there were presidential elections in 2024, and Crimea, which is a territory of Ukraine, voted in them which is unacceptable.  

Bulgaria took part in the decisions taken by the European Union and NATO regarding Ukraine. Moreover, we have offered support on various levels to Ukraine, political, military, humanitarian, diplomatic. I would even say that our parliament, the Bulgarian parliament, for seven hours took decisions on the delivery of military and humanitarian aid to Ukraine, and this is an important point. I can also tell you figures, because I like to work with figures.

Bulgaria ranks 14th out of all countries in the world in terms of support to Ukraine. In relation to the GDP of these countries, we give 0.3% of our GDP to Ukraine as aid and we can compare, we can say that countries in the Baltic area give this aid. In terms of purchasing power parity, Bulgaria gives the same aid as the United States and Great Britain, and in terms of the same GDP, Spain, Italy, France, give less aid to Ukraine. This is very important for us, because these figures show how ready we are to help Ukraine. But more than that, all the efforts that we are making in the Black Sea area together with Romania are also part of the same support for Ukraine, because if we succeed in the Black Sea objectives, this is important for Ukraine and for the activities undertaken during the war.

Another very important thing – I want to congratulate Romania for everything it is doing in terms of food transit to Ukraine. Last week I was near Suceava, where the biggest grain terminal opened. Very impressive and I am very pleased that I was there, because after Suceava, food and agricultural products go to Constanta or go through Bulgaria by train. They enter the territorial waters of Bulgaria, they approach the territorial waters of Bulgaria.

And it would not have been possible for Ukraine to have all these financial sources without us. Because war is war, but the economy works and they have to deliver their goods somewhere. And through Romania and Bulgaria’s systems, they can do that.

Of course the Russians are doing everything they can in the Black Sea to stop this process, but Romania, Bulgaria and maybe even Turkey are helping.

Excellency, a few years ago Romania had an initiative to build a NATO fleet in the Black Sea. Do you think a similar project will be possible in the future?

Basically, part of this project to build a NATO fleet in the Black Sea is possible and I will explain why. First of all, after the war in Ukraine, the Russian aggression against Ukraine, Romania and Bulgaria were very active and very understanding. They made NATO and the EU understand the importance of the Black Sea.

In 2022, at the NATO summit in Madrid, there was very little discussion about the Black Sea.

But at the Vilnius meeting there was more discussion about the importance of security in the Black Sea. Now the United States has already created its own strategy for the Black Sea and we are looking forward to the summit in Washington next month and expect the focus to be on the security issues in the Black Sea. That is if we refer to NATO.

Then Bulgaria and Romania have started an initiative in the EU and the EU has already integrated on the security issues in the Black Sea and endorses the joint initiative of Romania and Bulgaria. We even have the support of countries like France, Germany, Italy and Portugal. Support is certainly very important.

All these steps taken go in this direction proposed by Romania a few years ago. And how can I say, you can see the full understanding of all the institutions and I mean the EU, NATO and all the Member States. Everyone understands the importance of security in the Black Sea.

That is why Romania and Bulgaria are pleased with the attention being paid to this issue. I believe that this joint task force for the elimination of mines in the Black Sea between Romania, Bulgaria and Turkey is another step in this direction. 

This issue is not just about sea mines. But I would like to say that it is a metaphor for cleaning up the Black Sea and cleaning up the territorial waters of Romania, Bulgaria and Turkey, under the opportunity to clean up, to remove the Russian occupation. That is the purpose of the operation. Not just to remove the mines, but to clean up the Black Sea and to use the Black Sea for shipping purposes, for commercial purposes, for tourism and so on.

Of course these are very important aspects and they are part of the whole initiative that Romania proposed a few years ago.

In Ukraine, in the Odessa region, there is a very large Bulgarian minority. What is happening to them now?

It is a very difficult situation. All the people living in Ukraine, in this area, have a lot of problems.

There are more than 200,000 Bulgarians in Ukraine. It is the largest Bulgarian minority outside the borders of Bulgaria. There are 60-70,000 Bulgarians living in Odessa. All these people have the same problems. The same problems the other citizens of Ukraine have. I will give you a simple example. We are doing everything we can at the country level to support these people. We are not just talking about the Bulgarians, we are talking about all the people living in Odessa and in this region. I will give you an example.

First of all, our consulate is functioning, it is operational. Then, in 10 days, if I am not mistaken, in Odessa, the Bulgarian news agency BTA will organize an international meeting of Bulgarian media operating abroad. Traditionally, this meeting is organised in another country, and this year the meeting will take place in Odessa.

And Bulgarian journalists from all over the world will come and gather in Odessa. And the director general of the press agency was two days ago in Odessa, met the mayor of the city and I was watching on TV and I saw how he was saying how difficult the situation is there. And the situation with the Bulgarian minority, to answer your question, is the same as for all the other people there.

They have a lot of problems. In conclusion, I would like to say that we appreciate the efforts of the Ukrainian authorities to give rights to national minorities living in Ukraine, including Bulgarians. I know that Romania has a large concentration of ethnic Romanians there and I know that there are certain problems in Ukraine, but after the war it will be seen how important the support of Romania and Bulgaria was.

I already believe that there are better relations as far as minorities are concerned and I am sure that if we continue to support Ukraine, it is only natural that all minorities should benefit from all the rights of Bulgarians.

While we are on the subject of minority excellence, how would you describe the situation of ethnic Bulgarian minorities in our country – Romania?

Let me say one thing. It is rather a personal opinion, but of course I speak as an ambassador. I have been ambassador in Romania for 2 years and 2 months already.

Before that I was the Bulgarian Ambassador to Serbia. And in Serbia there is a large Bulgarian national minority who have major problems regarding their rights. When they say that they are Bulgarians, they have problems there. And we, as a state, had to work hard, not only with the authorities in Serbia, but within the European institutions. So the Bulgarian minority in Serbia has big problems.

And the policy of assimilation, which started in Yugoslavia, continues today. The minorities in one area, on the border with Bulgaria, are people who are afraid to say they are Bulgarians. They live in fear.

This is where I started from and now I have come to Romania, where our minorities are treated exceptionally. Congratulations to the Romanian state for absolutely everything you do for national minorities. You have 18 officially recognised minorities. And every minority has a representative in Parliament. And this is incredible. It is level one. National minorities in Romania receive funding from the Romanian state for cultural events, folklore events and so on.

They feel their national identity and Romania is to be congratulated for their efforts. That is why I made this parallel between Serbia and Romania. I know the problems of the Romanian minorities in Serbia. The Serbs do not work with one Romanian minority, but with two. And this is absolutely dangerous.

But I don’t want to talk about Serbia anymore. I made this parallel, this comparison to present my objective perspective on the situation of minorities in Romania.

Because it is a positive one compared to what is happening in Serbia, at least.

Now in 10 days we organized the fifth meeting of the Bulgarian minority in Romania. It was an exceptional event. These Bulgarians are Romanian citizens, they contribute, they are very satisfied with what they get from the Romanian state. They are very good and very useful.

They are treated well and they are very useful people, I dare say, working in various fields. In agriculture, some are lawyers, some are doctors and so on. And these people are an important part of Romanian society, of European Romanian society, because the contribution to them is a European one.

Excellency, in Romania we have a big problem with Russian propaganda and not only in Romania, I think it is a common factor at EU level, if not at world level. Is there Russian propaganda in Bulgaria?

Do you remember what I said at the beginning of our meeting today? How close we are as people. Russian propaganda, hybrid warfare is the common problem between the two countries. I have information about what is happening in Romania, and I want to say that the situation in Bulgaria is even more negative from this point of view. And I will explain why.

Russian propaganda, this hybrid warfare, is one of the most used tools by Russia. Unfortunately, they are successful on this front. They are very successful, unfortunately.

And I can give you many examples. They are clever, they work with a lot of money, and they use locals. In Bulgaria, in Romania, in the Czech Republic, in Slovakia, in all these countries.

In Bulgaria, it is a similar problem to what is happening in Romania. There are a lot of examples, but maybe I can refer to one, two examples. As far as Schengen is concerned, they are manipulating this perspective on Schengen through various journalists, through various politicians, even. And they say – “Brussels doesn’t want you. Why do you expect to be full members? Why do you think you will never have border control? That will never happen.”

And when you take your information from one side, from one channel, then people will say, “Yes, that’s right, Brussels doesn’t want us. Let’s go back to Russia.” That’s just a minor example.

Or in terms of the war in Ukraine Russian propaganda, Russian propagandists say, they claim – “You are already involved, you sent troops”. And the politicians say – “No, we haven’t sent troops, we won’t do that, it’s a very difficult procedure, the decision has to be of the parliament. This is not happening”.

When this information was released as disinformation, people reacted. We see the Russian disinformation war because it is a different kind of war. Tomorrow is the European parliamentary elections.

We remember that a few days ago in Brussels they explained how the disinformation process works. That is why I say they are successful. This propaganda war is successful and every country, not just nationally, we all have to work hard to defeat disinformation.

There are various structures at EU level, at NATO level, joint task forces between NATO and the EU working against disinformation. There is a centre in Helsinki. Bulgaria became a member last year, which is very active on this front. I saw on a Romanian TV station that there was this mention of fake news.

And it is very important that you as journalists – and the same thing happens in Bulgaria – serious channels present the reality and present what the fake news is and name it that way. It is very important that we do that.

We are used to what happened in the past, that if it appeared on TV it means it is 100% real. Or people say if I heard it on the radio it means it’s true. There are people in the country who sit and watch TV and say hey, I saw it on TV, it means it’s 100% true.

That’s why it’s important and I congratulate all the journalists of our channel, you, personally, to work hard and to give concrete examples and differences between reality and fake news.

What does the relationship between Russia and Bulgaria look like today in the geopolitical context?

I answer in one sentence. Currently, bilateral relations between Bulgaria and Russia are suspended. It was probably a phrase, not a sentence, but because of sanctions imposed by the US, the EU, the UK, relations have stopped. It makes no sense to work with them.

And I tell you something, maybe on a personal level.

I am so sorry, I feel sorry for the Russian people. They are suffering, they and Ukrainians. And I tell you one more thing from my experience as ambassador to Serbia.

In the former Yugoslavia, there were hundreds of thousands of marriages between Serbs, Croats, between Montenegrins and Croats. You can imagine there are six, seven republics in the former Yugoslavia. When the war started in the former Yugoslavia, there were very big problems for these families.

The same thing is happening now in Ukraine. I’m not sure if he has exact figures, but there are over 1 500 000 marriages between Ukrainians and Russians. And you can imagine what is happening now in these families.

And this is a real problem. That’s why we have to think about how we can support Ukraine all the way. Because the soldiers in Ukraine are fighting for the whole of Europe. They are fighting for our countries as well. It’s very important to keep this in mind

Excellent. It has been a real pleasure to have this dialogue with you. I invite you to come back whenever you have something to say. It has been a real pleasure. Thank you very much for this opportunity.

Photo: Bulgarian Ambassador to Romania H.E. Radko Vlaykov (source: screenshot)

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